Jan 22, 2017

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There are enough problems with the Book of Mormon, that people should disregard so called spiritual personal witnesses that the book of Mormon is true

Reasons to agree
  1. The Book of Mormon says that the Jews are the "principal ancestors of the American Indians", but they were not.  
  2. The Book of Mormon mentions several animals, plants, and technologies for which there is currently no evidence in pre-Columbian history
  3. God would not send his message to humanity through a document that had serious historical problems.
  4. God would not send his message to humanity through a document that had no historical support. 

Reasons to disagree
  1. There are some aspects of the Book of Mormon that support a literal historical interpretation.  

The Book of Mormon has so many problems that you should seriously question any spiritual feeling you have that it is true.

Reasons to agree
  1. The Book of Mormon says that the Jews are the "principal ancestors of the American Indians", but they were not.  
  2. The Book of Mormon mentions several animals, plants, and technologies for which there is currently no evidence in pre-Columbian history
  3. God would not send his message to humanity through a document that had serious historical problems.
  4. God would not send his message to humanity through a document that had no historical support. 

Reasons to disagree
  1. There are some aspects of the Book of Mormon that support a literal historical interpretation.  

Nov 3, 2012

+14) Mormon Scriptures have too many problems to be considered inspired

LDS Church leaders have made too many mistakes to be considered inspired.

Reasons to agree: +
  1. LDS Church Leaders made a mistake when they advocated the practice of Polygamy.
  2. LDS Church leaders have often prophesied things that did not happen. +2
  3. The treatment by LDS leaders to Black men indicates that the church is not inspired +0
  4. Whenever the LDS Church changes doctrine, they admit they made a mistake in the past. The LDS Church has changed doctrines too much for people to worry about following it
  5. LDS Church Leaders made a mistake when they taught the Adam-God Theory. 
  6. LDS Church Leaders made a mistake when they said the Catholic Church was the "Great and Abominable Church of Satan". 
  7. LDS Church Leaders made a mistake when they denied blacks the priesthood until 1978.
  8. LDS Church Leaders made a mistake when they prevented women from giving prayers in Sacrament meetings until 1978. 

People are born gay. It is wrong to discriminate against people for the way they are born.


Reasons to agree: +

  1. Their are biological differences in gay men and lesbians

Reasons to disagree: -

Scriptures that agree: +
Scriptures that disagree: -

Images That agree: +
Images That disagree: -

Valid Interest of those who agree: +
Valid Interest of those who disagree: -


Videos That agree: +
Videos That disagree: -

Website that agree: +

  1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation
  2. http://mormonstories.org/byu-professor-bill-bradshaw-on-a-biological-origin-of-homosexuality/

Websites that disagree: -

Podcast that agree: +
Podcast that disagree: -

Unbiased Experts who agree: +
Unbiased Experts who disagree: -


# of reasons to agree: +0
# of reasons to disagree: -0
# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: +0
# of reasons to agree with reasons to disagree: -0
Total Idea Score: 0

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Common Interest:
Opposing Interest:

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Nov 2, 2012

+15 There are biological differences between gays and heterosexuals

If it difficult or impossible to separate personal psychological needs from external God directed feelings

Reasons to agree: +1
  1. People who were raised in the church are going to have good feelings when thinking about staying in the church their parents friends, and family are in. These feelings naturally arise from friends, family, and tradition; independently of the truthfulness of the church. When you add in the confirmation bias, fear of change, and a desire to have answers and purpose in life, it is a wonder that anyone ever leaves. 
Reasons to disagree: -1
  1. Some people (my Grandma included) say they have visions having to do with genealogy, temple work, etc. Many (or some) of these people are good normal, sane, god loving people. Many of the people who joined the church seem to have more than just a small burning in the bosom that can be easily explained by the confirmation bias... And then it can all come back to emotional choice of who you more self identify with...  Who you think is "your" people 

Scriptures that agree: +
Scriptures that disagree: -

Images That agree: +
Images That disagree: -

Valid Interest of those who agree: +
Valid Interest of those who disagree: -


Videos That agree: +
Videos That disagree: -

Website that agree: +
Websites that disagree: -

Podcast that agree: +
Podcast that disagree: -

Unbiased Experts who agree: +
Unbiased Experts who disagree: -


# of reasons to agree: +0
# of reasons to disagree: -0
# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: +0
# of reasons to agree with reasons to disagree: -0
Total Idea Score: 0

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Common Interest:
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The LDS church is wrong to tell people that "good feelings" are valid reasons to believe the church +4


Reasons to agree: +

  1. God probably won't give you more spiritual guidance until you have exhausted the resources you already have access to. 
  2. God won't tell us what is true, until after we have used all our reason, ability to organize information, and logical skills.
  3. Feelings cannot be trusted to verify if a historical fact is true or not.
  4. It is bad to make important life (or eternal salvation) decisions based primarily on your feelings.

Reasons to disagree: -

Scriptures that agree: +

  1. Jeremiah 17:9: "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?"
Scriptures that disagree: -

  1. Galatians 5 22 


Images That agree: +
Images That disagree: -

Valid Interest of those who agree: +
Valid Interest of those who disagree: -


Videos That agree: +

Videos That disagree: -

Website that agree: +
Websites that disagree: -

Podcast that agree: +
Podcast that disagree: -

Unbiased Experts who agree: +
Unbiased Experts who disagree: -


# of reasons to agree: +4
# of reasons to disagree: -0
# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: +0
# of reasons to agree with reasons to disagree: -0
Total Idea Score: 4

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Common Interest:
Opposing Interest:

Related arguments:

  1. The LDS church is wrong to tell people that "bad feelings" are valid reasons to disbelieve those who criticize the church


The LDS church is wrong to use uses logical fallacies to keep people in the Church

Reasons to agree: +

  1. The LDS church exploits people by tricking them with the confirmation bias, when they tell people to bear their testimony of things, before they really know it is true. 
    1. Reasons to agree: +
      1. The confirmation bias is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms the hypotheses they have already accepted. A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased toward confirming their existing beliefs. Later work re-interpreted these results as a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In certain situations, this tendency can bias people's conclusions. Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. When the Church tells people to "find their testimony in the process of bearing it" they use the confirmation bias, to make people feel good about what they just said. 
  2. The LDS church is wrong to tell people that "good feelings" are valid reasons to believe the church. 
  3. The LDS church is wrong to tell people that "bad feelings" are valid reasons to disbelieve those who criticize the church. People who were raised in the church will naturally experience bad feelings when considering the concept that everything they once believed might be wrong. These feelings are natural to the situation, independently of are going to have good feelings when deciding to stay in the church their parents  friends, and family were are in. These feelings naturally arise from friends, family, and tradition independently of the truthfulness of the church. 

Reasons to disagree: -

Scriptures that agree: +
Scriptures that disagree: -

Images That agree: +
Images That disagree: -

Valid Interest of those who agree: +
Valid Interest of those who disagree: -


Videos That agree: +
Videos That disagree: -

Website that agree: +
Websites that disagree: -

Podcast that agree: +
Podcast that disagree: -

Unbiased Experts who agree: +
Unbiased Experts who disagree: -


# of reasons to agree: +0
# of reasons to disagree: -0
# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: +0
# of reasons to agree with reasons to disagree: -0
Total Idea Score: 0

Don't like the score? It is easy to change the score. Just post a reason to agree or disagree with the overall idea, or any of the reasons and the score will change.


Common Interest:
Opposing Interest:

Related arguments:

The LDS Church supports a black and white view that everyone who is not with the Church is an enemy of Good


Reasons to agree: +

  1. The LDS Church supports an unhealthy black and white view of the world. (+3)

Reasons to disagree: -

Scriptures that agree: +
Scriptures that disagree: -

Images That agree: +
Images That disagree: -

Valid Interest of those who agree: +
Valid Interest of those who disagree: -


Videos That agree: +
Videos That disagree: -

Website that agree: +
Websites that disagree: -

Podcast that agree: +
Podcast that disagree: -

Unbiased Experts who agree: +
Unbiased Experts who disagree: -


# of reasons to agree: +0
# of reasons to disagree: -0
# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: +0
# of reasons to agree with reasons to disagree: -0
Total Idea Score: 0

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Common Interest:
Opposing Interest:

Related arguments:

Nov 1, 2012

Mormon prophets disagree


Reasons to agree: +

  1. Brigham Young taught that Adam was God the Father. Other Prophets don't.
  2. Early prophets of the Church said that the Church would never give up Polygamy, but they did.

Reasons to disagree: -

Scriptures that agree: +
Scriptures that disagree: -

Images That agree: +
Images That disagree: -

Valid Interest of those who agree: +
Valid Interest of those who disagree: -


Videos That agree: +
Videos That disagree: -

Website that agree: +
Websites that disagree: -

Podcast that agree: +
Podcast that disagree: -


# of reasons to agree: +0
# of reasons to disagree: -0
# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: +0
# of reasons to agree with reasons to disagree: -0
Total Idea Score: 0



Common Interest:
Opposing Interest:

Related arguments:

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Oct 31, 2012

The Book of Mormon couldn't have been written without the help of God.

  1. It is hard to produce a totally unique consistent story with solid spiritual beliefs that inspires people.
  2. The Book of Mormon is very helpful to millions of people.
  3. The book of Mormon is relevant today. -1
    1. Reasons to agree: +1
      1. The fact that there are many similarities between modern gangs, and the Gadianton Robbers contributes to the belief that the book of Mormon is relevant today.
    2. Reasons to agree: -2
      1. Most of the relevant parts in the BOM are copied from the Bible.
      2. Most of the war stories in the BOM have very limited application to modern day life.
# of reasons to agree: +3
# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: -1
Total: 2
  1. Smith had lots of help on the BOM. First from his wife. Then Oliver Cowdry 
  2. The BOM is not a totally unique story +13
    1. Reasons to agree: +1
      1. There are many similarities between the BOM and View of the Hebrews by Ethan Smith: +13
        1. Reasons to agree: +12
          1. both have extensive quotation from the prophecies of Isaiah in the Old Testament; 
          2. both have the Israelite origin of the American Indian; 
          3. both have the future gathering of Israel and restoration of the Ten Lost Tribes; 
          4. both have the peopling of the New World from the Old via a long journey northward which encountered "seas" of "many waters;" 
          5. both have a religious motive for the migration; 
          6. both have the division of the migrants into civilized and uncivilized groups with long wars between them and the eventual 
          7. both have destruction of the civilized by the uncivilized; 
          8. both have the assumption that all native peoples were descended from Israelites and their languages from Hebrew; 
          9. both have the burial of a "lost book" with "yellow leaves;" 
          10. both have the description of extensive military fortifications with military observatories or "watch towers" overlooking them; 
          11. both have a change from monarchy to republican forms of government; and 
          12. both have the preaching of the gospel in ancient America.
        2. Website that agree: +1
          1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Book_of_Mormon
# of reasons to disagree: +2
# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 1 + 12 + 1 = 14
Total: 16
Total Idea Score: 2 - 16 = -14


Anachronisms:

  • DNA analysis proves that Native Americans are not descendants of Israel, like the Book of Mormon and LDS Prophets have taught. +7
  • The Book of Mormon mentions several animals, plants, and technologies for which there is currently no evidence in pre-Columbian history. +7
  • God wouldn’t have changed native american DNA as a way to test our faith with designed-implausibility. +5

Value of Concepts in the Book:

  • There are lots of good concepts in the Book of Mormon. +3
  • There are lots of bad concepts in the Book of Mormon. +3
  • The Book of Mormon is racist. +0
  • There are fewer deep life improving concepts in the book of Mormon, and more damaging concepts, than the average book of similar length. +3

Origins

  • Joseph Smith did not translate the Book of Mormon from ancient scriptures with assistance from God.  +15
  • There are a lot of good explanations for how the book of Mormon was written that don’t involve God. +15
  • There are too many historical problems with the book of Mormon to say that it is true or inspired. +12
  • The Book of Mormon borrows too much from the Bible. +6
  • Joseph Smith did not translate the Book of Mormon from ancient scriptures with assistance from God.

Testimony


  • There are a lot of good explanations for how the book of Mormon was written that don’t involve God. +15
  • There are so many problems with the Book of Mormon that you should doubt spiritual feeling you think you have when reading it.

Oct 28, 2012

The LDS church is cult-like

Reasons to agree
  1. The church used to have you promise to slit your throat, if you broke your covenants. This is pretty messed up. 
Reasons to disagree
  1.  There are some people with strong opinions within the church, that don't agree with those around them, and don't care what the leaders say. 
  2. The church no longer has you make weird life or death promises. 
  3. Mormons believe in Christ. The same Christ of the New Testament. They accept the new testament. They try to live the teachings of Jesus. 
  4. Calling Mormons a cult is an insult to Mormons, and those who love Mormons. It is a way of dismissing them, and saying they are not real people that cry, live, and love, and die. 
  5. My mother is a Mormon. She is the best person whom I have ever known. When you say Mormons are members of a cult, and you are insulting her, and I want to knock your block off. 
  6. When you call people a member of a cult, you are trying to say that they are bad people. 
  7. Yes, their have always been wierd things about the Church that bothered people, but you can't just focus on these things, and say everyone who is a member is weird. These members also had problems, but they looked at the whole picture, and came down on the side that the good outweighted the bad. Every Church has some wierd stuff. Perhaps not as bad as Mormons, but you have to admit that the Mormons have some good stuff that non-Mormons don't have. It is wrong to only focus on the bad, and then say they are a cult. You have to look at the good also, if you want to be considered fair. 
Scriptures that agree

Scriptures that disagree

# of reasons to agree: 1
# of reasons to disagree: -7
# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0
# of reasons to agree with reasons to disagree: -0
Total Idea Score: -6


Images That agree
Images That disagree

Interest of those who agree: +
Interest of those who disagree: -

Common Interest:
Opposing Interest:

Videos That agree
Videos That disagree

Website that agree
Websites that disagree

Related arguments:

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LDS prophets do not seem to have the gift of prophesy


Reasons to agree
  1. LDS Church leaders have often prophesied things that did not happen. +2
  2. The fact that LDS Church leaders were unable to see through Mark William Hofmann is evidence that suggest that LDS prophets do not seem to have the gift of prophesy. 
  3. Joseph Smith seems to have been fooled by the Kinderhook plates. But more than just being tricked, he claimed to have the power to translate them, and made up stuff about them.
Reasons to disagree
  1.   

# of reasons to agree: 2
# of reasons to disagree: -0
# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 2
# of reasons to agree with reasons to disagree: -0
Total Idea Score: 4


Scriptures that agree

Scriptures that disagree


Images That agree

Images That disagree



Interest of those who agree
Interest of those who disagree

Common Interest
Opposing Interest


Videos That agree
Videos That disagree



Related arguments:

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